Hi there. Welcome back!
For today’s episode, I am honored to bring on special guest Joe Clarke. In this episode we are going to talk about how to have a purposeful business. This episode is so important if you got into doing your own business, whatever you call it, whether you’re an independent contractor, you have a side gig, if you’re in this full-time, you consider yourself a healer, a body worker, a healthcare provider, a physical therapist, a yoga teacher, a combination of them all, a coach, a practitioner of the arts, it doesn’t matter. If you got into whatever it is that you’re doing to help and serve people, then this blog is for you.
You’ll hear Joe’s story and how inspiring it is to realize that even if you don’t like marketing and selling and it feels icky and maybe you even learned from your mentors or other spiritual teachers that it’s not in alignment to make money or market yourself or it feels like self-promotion, then be sure to read this blog in its entirety. His story is all about how he helps people get in touch with their purpose and live their lives more fully with less stress, more common ease, as well as his journey as an entrepreneur and how he went from not really liking marketing so much to now thinking of it as a creative process and looking forward to it.
So be sure to read this blog to inspire your own entrepreneurial journey and all the intricacies that come with being an entrepreneur, as well as Joe’s story of how he helps and serves his community and his people, so you can be inspired for the practitioner side of things as well to keep going and helping and serving others as well as cultivating a sustainable business that you love to work in. I hope you enjoy!
Question To Joe: Can you tell us a little bit about what you do and who you help?
Gladly. So I’m a spiritual guide and I like to work with people. Basically, we’re looking to go deeper in their self-exploration, trying to find out what are some of the patterns that have been holding them back, what opportunities are they missing out on, what vision of the future do they have for themselves, and then I act as their guide and their friend and their supporter to help them reach those goals and do that difficult inner work, which can bring up a lot of things from the past that can feel unsafe. And so part of what I do is really try to provide a supportive and safe setting to empower you to do your deep inner work.
Question To Joe: Can you tell me what are some of the results that people get when they're working with you?
Like tangibly. When they are going deeper or doing that inner work? Because sometimes it can seem a little esoteric and it’s like, okay, it sounds nice, but it is applicable, very applicable into our real lives.
I think the first thing I notice is a sense of the kind of comfort and relief that comes over people when we begin going into this. I think our souls are always calling out for this work our whole lives, but when we’re so busy and caught up in the day-to-day, we don’t get to do it. But when you finally get the opportunity to sit down with someone who opens that space for you and holds it and is supportive, I just see it first in the body language and my clients, their shoulders relax, their jaws relax, they breathe more naturally. They feel like they can go and share parts of themselves that they sometimes don’t even feel comfortable sharing with themselves. And that’s a real beautiful thing to see.
And then the second thing I see is I see them going deeper. I see them making connections that they weren’t making before. Sometimes when I first start working with people, they come in and kind of what’s at the surface is whatever’s kind of bothering them that day or what they’ve been hung up on that week. And as we go further in our work, more and more I see them excited to come back and to go farther, to kind of go beneath the waves into the ocean and to really find those pearls that are hidden down there. And when that excitement is palpable and when I see them eager to do the work, that’s when I know we’ve got that connection going and that’s nice.
Question To Joe: When they are gathering those pearls, do they show up more confident in their day-to-day or less stressed as you were hinting at with the relaxation of the shoulders, that sort of thing?
Yeah, both of those things. And I think infusing it is a sense of purpose, you know? I think we look at that through life and you know, especially where I am in my life right now, I’m in my early forties, this is a natural opportunity in midlife to kind of reflect on, you know, what’s going on? Why am I here, what’s my purpose? And you know, I think we grasp for that question, but so often we don’t feel like we have an answer. So we sink back into our usual routines.
It’s a beautiful thing that I find in my work is being able to see a client realize, “I really can do this. I really can dig deeper into myself, find these lessons that have been calling out to me.” But for one reason or another, we haven’t had that connection. And when I see that and I see that purpose, that’s how I know that fire is lit and my client’s empowered. And when that’s the case, yeah, they just bring a whole different energy. It’s really beautiful.
Alison: Yeah. That’s awesome. So when the soul is calling out, like you say, or there’s lessons and messages that need to be learned, like for me personally, I feel that it shows up sometimes with some of my health challenges that I go through.
Question To Joe: What do you see for some of your people? Can it show up in different ways?
Yeah, both of those things. And I think infusing it is a sense of purpose, you know? I think we look at that through life and you know, especially where I am in my life right now, I’m in my early forties, this is a natural opportunity in midlife to kind of reflect on, you know, what’s going on? Why am I here, what’s my purpose? And you know, I think we grasp for that question, but so often we don’t feel like we have an answer. So we sink back into our usual routines.
It’s a beautiful thing that I find in my work is being able to see a client realize, “I really can do this. I really can dig deeper into myself, find these lessons that have been calling out to me.” But for one reason or another, we haven’t had that connection. And when I see that and I see that purpose, that’s how I know that fire is lit and my client’s empowered. And when that’s the case, yeah, they just bring a whole different energy. It’s really beautiful.
Alison: Yeah. That’s awesome. So when the soul is calling out, like you say, or there’s lessons and messages that need to be learned, like for me personally, I feel that it shows up sometimes with some of my health challenges that I go through.
Question To Joe: What do you see for some of your people? Can it show up in different ways?
Joe: It could show up in a lot of different ways. I’d say, you know, a theme is this word addiction, and when you hear that, you know, we think naturally about chemical dependency and things like that. And that’s definitely one of the ways addiction shows up. But you know, I like Dr. Joe Dispenza’s definition, which is addiction is something you just can’t seem to stop doing even though you want to. And I think if we look at our lives through that lens, we see that in our relationships with each other and with ourselves, in our career path, and all kinds of ways, there are just certain ways we get stuck and we keep getting hung up in these same loops over and over. And I think that’s just an addictive pattern that’s rooted in unresolved trauma from the past. There are some negative beliefs and fear that kind of got stuck in our system.
And you know, that energy, you could think of it kind of as an inner child energy, it’s calling out for help, it’s calling out for love, and it’s also offering something in return, which is this insight, and this wisdom and this ability to mature and move on. So my work is really about helping people connect with that difficult energy inside themselves and to realize it for the gift that it is.
Alison: Yeah. Yeah. Because it can be a gift. Sometimes though, in the moment, it’s okay to feel like, “This is pretty crappy.” Awesome. I love that.
Question To Joe: And how do you bring some of this work of like keeping in touch with your purpose and keeping that connection with your soul and your purpose into your work as an entrepreneur?
It’s really important and really crucial and, I’ll just say, it’s been one of the beautiful things about working with you and one of the things that attracted me to you was that you really emphasize that I personally have this tendency to slip into what I call my workhorse routine. It’s just kind of compulsively jump into my to-do list and just basically start whacking moles all day, you know, with that nervous kind of get-it-done energy, which, you know, if I look back, that’s the energy I ran on for much of my life but it never really served me and it certainly doesn’t serve me now.
And you know, one of the beautiful things about the work I do is I really have to do a reality check and remind myself if I’m going to bring that energy to my own work behind the scenes, that’s going to show up in how I treat my clients. And that’s going to limit their ability to grow because, you know, on a subconscious level, I’m going to be transmuting that to them. And so that’s really empowering and it gives me added motivation to really practice what I preach and to use my mindfulness techniques and really my self-care, not just in my client sessions, but also in the work I do behind the scenes with myself.
Alison: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. It is so important and really, that’s what creates a sustainable business because you can only put out fires for so long or keep that kind of frantic pace. I know I’ve been there myself. So it is coming back into that grounded uncertainty, sensation, and emotions most of the time that keeps you going.
Question To Joe: How do you think that's changed your business? Or how does that help your business these days?
Well, I mean, first and foremost, I look forward to working more than I used to, I think. You know, that workhorse thing. I was kind of trying to dive headfirst into my work. And it may have been compensating for the fact that on a deep level on the inside, I didn’t like how I felt when I was working. I felt stressed and scattered and frantic. You know? I was kind of constantly living in scarcity mode. And to now look at a work schedule on a daily and weekly basis that feels realistic, feels doable, feels focused, feels prioritized, it’s just empowering and energizing and I can let that workhorse energy go and not feel as dependent on it to be productive. And that’s just a beautiful feeling. And you know, like anything, it’s always a work in progress and there are good days and there are bad days, but I like the trend.
Alison: Sure, yeah. That’s awesome. And for me, I feel like when I don’t have that scarcity or when I’m in a workhorse mentality, there’s an added pressure to anything I do. It actually slows me down, which I realize when I come out of it, but I try to like force whatever I’m doing and instead of tapping into that creative flow, whatever I’m doing, when I’m in the creative flow, has so much more impact and it comes so much with less effort I should say. So that’s huge. And so relatable. I think so many people can relate to what you just said and really want to bring that lightness to their business and that flow to their own business.
Question To Joe: So what would you say to someone who does maybe experience some fear or scarcity mindset or that workhorse mentality to help shift their mind from that place to more of the element of trust and flow?
Two things come to mind. First is, you know, working with Alison or working with, you know, a consultant like Alison who’s skilled and trained in this specific field is really valuable, as a sounding board to give feedback. There’s really no substitute for a second set of eyes on the situation to give you fresh insight.
I’d say the second thing is just appreciating that there really is no difference between means and ends when it comes to this. And by that I mean, you know, I think we tend to look at the work week and we think, “Okay, if I just kind of hustle and grind, if I just put my head down and get it done, there’s going to be a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and everything will work out and it’ll all be good.” And what I’m coming to realize and appreciate is it really doesn’t work that way.
What you put in, you know, what you sow is going to be what you reap. And if you’re going into that day and you’re kind of chugging that scarcity coffee all day, and you’re hitting yourself little shots of fear and need, that’s going to reflect in how you’re showing up to your family that day. It’s going to reflect in how you treat yourself and ultimately, it’s going to show up in how you treat your clients and what you bring to your clients.
And so if you look more at the day as you know, there’s that great Robert Lewis Stevenson quote of, “Judge the day not by what you reap, but what you sow.” And what you sow is your intention and your attitude and the way you’re treating yourself through the day that really sets the foundation not just in business but in life generally for better interactions and just a better feeling.
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Question To Joe: And then if we're coming full circle back to the addiction, how could that help release some of those addictions?
Those addictions really are that, you know, again, I kind of called it inner child energy, that unresolved trauma from the past, which, you know, is oftentimes caused by this very thing, this workforce attitude of “I can’t handle this right now, I’m not going to process this right now, I’m not going to be with my feelings right now, I’m going to go more into the problem-solving mode or just get past this mode.” And you know, we use that as a coping mechanism in the past for one reason or another.
Now in the present, when we bring that more abundance focus, when we’re thinking more about how we’re treating ourselves in the moment that’s actually doing some of that inner healing work then and there because we’re sending that message into our body and into our subconscious that we’ve learned the lesson, that we’re not going to keep running on this scarcity gas pedal. That we’re going to recognize that each moment is an opportunity to either treat ourselves poorly or to treat ourselves well. And the more we’re treating ourselves well, we’re signaling to ourselves again and again and again, “I’m here, I’ve learned I really want this to be a healthy relationship.”
Alison: I love that because that’s been my work really the last couple of years, is noticing when I’m resisting some of those emotions and I just completely avoid feeling everything in general because I’d unconsciously didn’t realize that was happening. And so now for me, it’s knowing that when I slow down and take a moment to acknowledge what I’m feeling and there are some few choices that I can make in the moment of what I want to do with that emotion, but it’s not going to cause my business to stop. In fact, by doing this work, it can help my business to speed up and become more sustainable because this resistance essentially doesn’t become an energy leak.
Joe: It speaks beautifully too to this, this larger point, which is that how we treat others is a reflection of how we treat ourselves. And if behind the scene every time those difficult energies come up, you’re just hitting snooze again and again and again and pushing through without realizing it, that’s how we’re going to show up with our clients and when they come up with those vulnerabilities and those real opportunities to do work, we’re just going to kind of blow past it and go to our agenda and our kind of time crunch instead of realizing that golden opportunity of vulnerability that the client presented. So the more consistently we do that with ourselves, we do that with others too. I think that’s really true.
Alison: Yeah. I think you just hit on a really important point as a practitioner. Like it is a great practitioner skill to, I work on this with a lot of clients where they might have a specific framework or process that they’re developing and guiding their clients or patients through, but it’s learning how the art, exactly what you said of meeting the client where they’re at, where you can still, you know, and I call this the difference between teaching and coaching where you might teach part of your process or philosophy or framework, but then the coaching is to allow for that vulnerability and for the client to express like, “Okay, I’m doing this but feeling this,” and it might pause at right at that area longer than you anticipated. Like one part of your process, you may have anticipated it will only be for one session but then the client and things unravel. And at that point, as a practitioner, you have a choice to stay with the client where they’re at and lean into that vulnerability as you said. Or you can push through it and be like, “Oh no, no, no. Session three, this is what we’re supposed to be doing now.” Right? And it is an art to guide the client so they don’t get stuck. Right? But also helping them to work at their pace and their speed.
Joe: I just want to say that you really do practice what you preach in that regard. And in a lot of our sessions, it’s one of the things I’ve really appreciated about our work together is that, you know, when things are difficult or I, you know, I’m kind of hung up on something, we allow the session to really kind of congregate around that. And I could just tell you from that experience, I feel really supported. I feel really seen, I feel really heard. And you know, what I’m finding more and more is yes, like absolutely the concepts are important, the frameworks are important, they serve their role, but empowering somebody to be a friend of themselves and to heal themselves is maybe the best gift we can really give.
And one of the ways we do that is by doing exactly what you do, which is by showing that that’s what’s important. And the way we show its importance is by what we devote our time and attention to. And you know, I think when a client, I know from working with you and from others, that that’s really been a powerful takeaway, feels truly seen, heard, and respected, that empowers me to see, feel, and respect myself. And that really is the seed that can sprout the tree of life within you and affect all areas of your life.
Question To Joe: So tell us a little bit of the modalities you use with your work these days.
So right now I offer three services. I offer reiki energy healing, I offer mindfulness coaching, and then I offer a service that I call spiritual dialogue.
Alison: I love that. And I love how you mentioned that there are three, because I work with a lot of very talented, skilled practitioners with many, many certifications, multiple certifications, sometimes multiple degrees. And at times they use that against themselves because they either switch from one thing to the next, to next being like, “Oh, they don’t want yoga, they really want this other thing instead.” Or, the multiple certifications make it confusing as to how they can really talk to people in their marketing or help them with a specific offer or program.
Question To Joe: So since you are multi-skilled and multi-talented, how do you bring this work together so it feels more simple and streamlined?
I think the key for me has been reconnecting these services that I’m offering to others, to my own personal experience and my own personal journey. I offer these three services because, at various points in my spiritual awakening, these modalities have served me.
I received reiki back in 2018 and 2019 for the first time when my spiritual awakening really began in earnest. It was a very scary and difficult and intense time. And I worked with a practitioner named Unity Grace, and reiki was one of the things she offered me. And it brought a level of peace and comfort and tranquility and the ability to kind of slip beneath the waves and connect with the stillness inside myself when my life felt very chaotic. And that’s one of the reasons I’m excited to share it is because it literally transformed me and it set the foundation for my life going forward.
And so, you know, the fact that it’s really kind of in my spiritual DNA makes it a natural offering. And likewise, with my other two services, mindfulness coaching has really taught me how to unconditionally bring my mind into a state of stillness and silence and softness so that I can reconnect with my priorities and my sense of inner clarity, really no matter what’s going on around me.
And you know, again, especially as the spiritual awakening process sometimes gets very difficult and turbulent, that’s a really priceless skill. And then the spiritual dialogue is another thing that grew out of my time working with Unity Grace, and some other spiritual guides. And in a nutshell, it’s about exploring fresh perspectives, seeing the ways that other people, especially spiritual teachers, tend to look at the world, and then using that as a jumping point to do self-discovery exercises. Kind of look at your life through these different lenses, these different spiritual teachers provide, find new opportunities for insight to realize how things have been holding you back, and realize what potentials are there and what gifts you have that maybe you just haven’t cultivated or appreciated in yourself yet.
Question To Joe: So for the entrepreneurs listening and they, you kind of piqued their interest, they might not have called it a spiritual awakening, but maybe they're going through a challenging time in their life. What would you recommend to them? Are there any practices they can do at home in one of those three or any of those three modalities to help move through that with a little bit more ease so they can tend to themselves and still run a business where it doesn't have to be so black or white?
Absolutely. And I think mindfulness coaching is the one that jumps to mind because it really is something we can do ourselves without as much intervention. Reiki is something, you know, I’m a reiki practitioner, I do it on myself and spiritual dialogue as well. But that involved more training. And the beauty of you too is, you know, obviously I recommend working with a mindfulness coach like myself.
There are a lot of apps out there that offer a pretty good foundation, a pretty good start. Establishing a regular mindfulness practice is really the most important thing. And I say that as someone who’s kind of gone on and off the wagon with that over the course of my spiritual awakening pretty consistently. And really with zero doubt at this point, the times when I’m most stable, when I’m showing up the best, when I’m feeling the best, both professionally and personally, is when I’m meditating regularly and when I’m being mindful throughout the day. And so even something like 20 minutes in the morning or the evening and then bringing a little mantra or something throughout the day just to help you reconnect with that stillness that you touch in meditation, that for me is huge. If you do that, you’re doing yourself a tremendous service.
Alison: Yeah, I love that. Sometimes what’s helpful for me is like an anchor. I either call it an anchor feeling or belief or an anchor thought like you’re saying. Or even, you know, in some of the spiritual, I’m not sure what kind of world it might be, magical world, it could be like a tasman where like a stone or some kind of visualization for yourself to anchor you back to that point of what you were feeling in that moment where you were tending to yourself, listening to yourself, and maybe you did feel grounded and safe and more open and able to receive that creative flow that can come through you.
Joe: Yes. It’s beautiful. I do that very thing myself and I coach on that and I found that very effective.
Question To Joe: Well Joe, if any wellness entrepreneurs are hesitant to work with anyone, like any type of practitioner or a coach, what would you say to encourage them? Because you've done a lot of inner work yourself, you're currently working with me. What would you say to someone who's out there going it alone and they're just, they need that little next nudge to get to reaching out to someone? How could you help them? Or what would you say to them?
A few things come to mind. So first, and I think I mentioned this before, there is no substitute for having a second set of eyes on a situation. You could be as informed and as educated and as open-minded as you want, but that second set of eyes really will help you see things in your blind spots that you really can’t see otherwise.
I’d say a second thing is that if you’re working with the right person, you’re not going to feel preached to, you’re not going to feel regimented, instead, you could actually feel empowered. And that’s how I felt throughout our process. I came in and I was really insecure about marketing. I was really insecure about selling and advertising. Wasn’t sure how to go about it on a deep level. I felt like it was bad or wrong. I had some phobias and fears around it. And you’ve really demystified that for me. You’ve given me really practical concrete ways to approach it. And now, I mean, I can’t believe I’m actually saying this, but I actually look forward to my marketing because I finally made that connection between what I know in my heart to be true, which is the value of my services and this skill and ability of communication to convey that to someone else, heart to heart, so that they can see from the outside what you feel on the inside. It sounds kind of obvious in hindsight, but there was a disconnect inside that wasn’t allowing me to make that. And you’ve really nurtured me and allowed me to do that. So yeah, that’s been wonderful.
And the third thing is, is making an investment in yourself. You know? I know the hesitation I had before joining was, you know, I was looking at my bank situation and I was worried, you know, man, I don’t have enough money to begin with. Why am I going to spend money on a consultant when I really should be, holding on to that money to keep my business afloat? And when I really reframed it as an investment in myself to cultivate those skills within me that wanted to be stronger, then it really clicked and became obvious. And that really then became more of a vote of confidence in myself and my business. That money that I’m putting into it is saying, I’m buying into the future. I’m buying into more time. I’m buying into taking into my business further and growing my own skills.
Alison: Yes. I love all that. So relatable. I think every entrepreneur at some point feels some of that in all of those areas in their business. I remember when marketing, I didn’t really like to do it either. And now I actually love to market. It’s part of my creative process.
And I think too, as a spiritual practitioner, it might be so comforting to a lot of people all that you said, because sometimes it is like some business strategies. There is a disconnect between the yoga and the spiritual world where it can be, where there are some lineages where it is looked down upon or frowned upon or considered, and there’s a word thrown out there like egotistical. Right? And it’s really, that can be a mindset, but there is a whole other perspective where it’s client-focused and client-led or heart-led or purpose-led and that opens the doors to so much more. So I think what you said in just allowing other spiritual practitioners out there, if they felt like, “Oh, I don’t know if I could do that,” helping them to realize that there’s a whole other way to view that. Those business strategies.
Joe: Yeah. And it comes to mind, you know, something we’ve talked about, which is this notion that there are people out there who want to work with us. There are people out there who will benefit from our work and who, you know, if you want to look at it a little more starkly, if they don’t work with us, they’re missing out on maybe a golden opportunity in life.
And marketing is just about establishing that connection and finding those people and resonating with them. And the craft of marketing is about refining that inner intuitive message you have, that both of you have. There’s kind of that buzzing inside like we’re meant to work with each other but we have to convince that head, right? Which controls the wallet, which controls the schedule. To make, take that plunge. Right? To make that leap. And marketing really seems to be about that art first within ourselves and then to our customers about bridging that head, heart divide so that they’re in resonance with each other and realizing, “Ah, I see now how this can serve me in the long term, why it’s more than worth it.”
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Question To Joe: Any parting words of wisdom?
Be good to yourself, be a friend to yourself. I think in life and especially in our society, we are conditioned to be our own boss, to become our own taskmaster, to become sometimes like a hard-driving parent, and that certainly serves its role and its functions and it certainly helps us get a lot of things done in life. Consultation when it becomes the dominant paradigm, when it becomes how we conceive ourselves, it leads to a lot of joylessness and difficulty. We miss out on a lot of opportunities to enjoy life more.
So, I encourage you if you find yourself stuck in that taskmaster role, each day and each week seems kind of like a non-stop to-do list, look for opportunities even just little things throughout the day to be good to yourself, to find the foundations of friendship or respect, honesty, trust, appreciation and kindness. Look for little ways that you can express those with yourself. And then notice how when you do that with yourself, you more naturally share that with the people in your lives, your loved ones, with your clients, with everybody else.
Question To Joe: Where can they find you?
So the best way to find me is on my website. it is www.josephclarke-spiritualflourishing.com. If you just google Joseph Clarke Oceanside spiritual flourishing, you’d be able to find it there. Got a lot of helpful information and resources on my website.
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